Re: Tram Announcements: another Victorian election conspiracy theory

[cmgord@ecr.mu.oz.au (Christopher_Martin GORDON)]

: Well, now that there are no conductors on the buses, why don't they have the
: same problems with people validating and delaying the bus? Because bus
: people are better trained - they have their tickets out and ready to
: validate, the whole process taking up a second or two.

That is because validators or no validators you need a ticket to get onto
a bus.  

: Tram passengers on the other hand, board the tram, fold up their copy of
: "The Age" (a herculean task in itself), pop it under their arms, take out
: their wallet or purse, rifle through it trying to find their ticket, and
: then eventually take their ticcket out. Since they are civilly disobedient
: and rarely validate, they do not know how to insert it into the validator
: propely, and get it right on the third try. This is why validation on trams
: takes so long.

No one reads the paper anymore.  Up till 2 years ago you didn't need a ticket
in your hand to get onto a tram.  Why will the people change now?

: No, just the obstinacy of Melbourne people who refuse to validate.

It has nothing to do with Melbourne people and Sydney people (stupid Sydney
people always trying to make themselves better than Melbourne people, it
don't work we all the same.)

Sydney has no transport where validation is "optional" like Melbourne
trams.
: > : The point made 1000 times is that people in Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide
: > : and myriads of other places around the world have no problems with using
: > : validators, automatic barriers etc, yet some (possibly large) subset of
: > : the people of Melbourne want to distinguish themselves from the rest of
: > : the world by claiming it is outrageously difficult or unreasonable.
: >
: > People in Sydney/Brisbane/Adelaide don't have problmes validating because
: > the driver of the bus makes them (by watching them), same it Melbourne.

: Okay, so you ARE saying that you won't validate because there is nobody
: there to make you do it. Nothing to do with the ease or otherwise of
: validation.

We are talking about everyone in Melbourne here, not just me.  It is just
human nature.  If you have a optional toll on a road how many people will
pay it?  You will never get almost everyone unless it is inforced.  
The bus driver inforces people getting on the bus to have a valid ticket
(usually checked by validation).  Who inforces it on the tram?

: It is absolutely NOTHING to do with the system - your explanations would
: have some merit in peak hour - but why don't people validate at 9pm on an
: almost empty tram? They get on, no congestion, no way that stopping to
: validate would cause delays. The reason? They don't want to. Can't be
: bothered. Nothing to do with the system at all.

Did I say it was the systems fault? apart from not having anyone to inforce
validation on the trams.

: > : > I suggest if the people in Sydney/Brisbane want to know what it is
: realy
: > : > like they should have spent a year or so catching trams with
: conductors
: > : > and a year or so with out conductors with automatic ticketing and see
: > : > how different the people using the trams behave.
: >
: > : Again supporting the interpretation above, i.e. that it is not the
: > : validation process which is unreasonable but it is just people making a
: > : protest?
: >
: > It is just the nature of trams, but how would you know there hasn't been
: > trams in Sydney for almost 40 years.

: I lived in Melbourne for 19 months, during the conductor period, so I know
: what I am talking about - I come down to Melbourne for 3 weeks every January
: to umpire at the Australian Open (I know, it is not the 12 months you said,
: but it is a start).

: I travel like a regular commuter during those three weeks - 2 trams in in
: the morning, tram up to the City for lunch, a tram back, then I might go out
: in the evening, and 4 or 5 more tram trips. A minimum of 6, quite often 12
: tram trips per day, EVERY day for 3 weeks. I think this gives me a little
: bit of an idea as to how the system works, and whether it works/

At least you have had a visit to Melbourne and tried it out.  More that
others from Sydney and Brisbane.

Try it at a different time of year, like when school and university are in 
operation and there is a full load of workes not during their summer holidays.
(if they still get any holidays, thanks to jeff)

The type of people using the system are different, people that are used to
it.  I would say that during the period you spent down here you would have got
a good look and use of the system but not the 'normal' people using it everyday.


So know you know the system you only need to know the people using it, since
you think Melbourne people are different to Sydney people.
: I know why it is - people cannot be bothered, has absolutely NOTHING to do
: with the system, it is the people that have the problem.

: DaveP



--

Chris Gordon
http://www.ecr.mu.oz.au/~cmgord