Re: Tram Announcements: another Victorian election conspiracy theory

["WhaleOilBeefHooked" <daproc@sd5.mailbank.com>]

Christopher_Martin GORDON <cmgord@ecr.mu.oz.au> wrote in message
7s93eu$p0n$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU">news:7s93eu$p0n$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU...
> : > YES, but what is the point of having trams where you board by the
front
> : > door?
>
> : So what is the point of having buses where you board by the front door?
>
> Because that is hopw buses work, we used to have conductors on the tramway
> buses in Melbourne, then you could board by either door, but most still
> boarded by the front door.

Well, now that there are no conductors on the buses, why don't they have the
same problems with people validating and delaying the bus? Because bus
people are better trained - they have their tickets out and ready to
validate, the whole process taking up a second or two.

Tram passengers on the other hand, board the tram, fold up their copy of
"The Age" (a herculean task in itself), pop it under their arms, take out
their wallet or purse, rifle through it trying to find their ticket, and
then eventually take their ticcket out. Since they are civilly disobedient
and rarely validate, they do not know how to insert it into the validator
propely, and get it right on the third try. This is why validation on trams
takes so long.

> : > Isn't it funny how all the people in Sydney who haven't had trams for
almost
> : > 40 years now know more about the operation of trams with and without
> : > conductors then the people of Melbourne who catch trams every day.
>
> : I wasn't aware we were debating the operation of trams; we were debating
> : the obstinacy of some Melbourne people about using validators.
>
> No it is just trams.

No, just the obstinacy of Melbourne people who refuse to validate.

> : The point made 1000 times is that people in Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide
> : and myriads of other places around the world have no problems with using
> : validators, automatic barriers etc, yet some (possibly large) subset of
> : the people of Melbourne want to distinguish themselves from the rest of
> : the world by claiming it is outrageously difficult or unreasonable.
>
> People in Sydney/Brisbane/Adelaide don't have problmes validating because
> the driver of the bus makes them (by watching them), same it Melbourne.

Okay, so you ARE saying that you won't validate because there is nobody
there to make you do it. Nothing to do with the ease or otherwise of
validation.

> I am not sure about the trains in those citys (just like you are not
> sure why people don't validate on our trams), but Melbourne most
> people validate at the train station.
>
> You have no problems because you have no trams!!! (that light rail doesn't
> count as a system, and the tram in Adelaide has conductors)

It is absolutely NOTHING to do with the system - your explanations would
have some merit in peak hour - but why don't people validate at 9pm on an
almost empty tram? They get on, no congestion, no way that stopping to
validate would cause delays. The reason? They don't want to. Can't be
bothered. Nothing to do with the system at all.

> : > I don't give a shit what crap you come up with about Melbourne people
being
> : > lazy, but if Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane still had a large tram network
like
> : > Melbourne and the trams had conductors for years, then replaced with
> : > validators and driver only trams, they you would get the same high
level of
> : > people not validating, it is not just the people of Melbourne, it is
ALL
> : > people.
>
> : So now you are arguing that it is a pseudo-political response to the
> : absence of conductors, rather than a real issue about the nature of
> : trams?
>
>
> : > I suggest if the people in Sydney/Brisbane want to know what it is
realy
> : > like they should have spent a year or so catching trams with
conductors
> : > and a year or so with out conductors with automatic ticketing and see
> : > how different the people using the trams behave.
>
> : Again supporting the interpretation above, i.e. that it is not the
> : validation process which is unreasonable but it is just people making a
> : protest?
>
> It is just the nature of trams, but how would you know there hasn't been
> trams in Sydney for almost 40 years.

I lived in Melbourne for 19 months, during the conductor period, so I know
what I am talking about - I come down to Melbourne for 3 weeks every January
to umpire at the Australian Open (I know, it is not the 12 months you said,
but it is a start).

I travel like a regular commuter during those three weeks - 2 trams in in
the morning, tram up to the City for lunch, a tram back, then I might go out
in the evening, and 4 or 5 more tram trips. A minimum of 6, quite often 12
tram trips per day, EVERY day for 3 weeks. I think this gives me a little
bit of an idea as to how the system works, and whether it works/

> Until you come down to Melbourne and watch people getting on trams and
> see what they do then we will worry about buses and trains, I say that
> the validation rate on Melbourne buses and trains is the same as any
> other city in Australia.
>
> There is no point just saying people in Melbourne don't validate when
> you and me don't know why.  But I have told you the only problem is
> trams.

I know why it is - people cannot be bothered, has absolutely NOTHING to do
with the system, it is the people that have the problem.

DaveP