Re: Dorrigo 19th Century Treasures

["Trevor Edmonds" <trevor_edmonds@dingoblue.net.au>]

James Brook wrote...

> But a collection is fairly useless for anyone other than historians if
> it isn't restored and displayed in a way so the public can properly
> appreciate what it is.

Our opinions differ on the merits of saving items which may mot be restored
for long periods of time. As each side is no more than an opinion, I suggest
you do what sits you, and I will do what suits me.


> You are missing my point. All groups must still rely on volunteer
> labour. What I am saying is that groups need to be able to reach a break
> even point with the resources they have, including volunteer labour. You
> still need to be realistic and have good business sense to reach this.

OK, we will do the bean counter approach. The DSRM annual report for
1999/2000 shows a profit. I trust this meets your approval, and illustrates
the good business sense approach we have adopted. Next year we will be
selling our grandmothers.

> But as long as you have the money, you can always collect something. It
> is a very different thing to do the research and *properly* restore an
> item. Anyway, the amount of money, time and effort you spent on the 46
> could have gone a long way to getting your other exhibits undercover.
> 4602 isn't the only 46 left.

Your statement was that buying something is easy. I was trying to illustrate
that it is abnything but. If we wanted to, we could display 4602 in its
present condition. That is the exact condition in which it saw service.
There you are, its properly restored already!

> In an ideal world I would prefer none of these locomotives to be
> scrapped. It would be nice to preserve them all. I said that it depends
> on your priorities as to what you preserve.

And our priorities are that this group should be preserved.

> If you want a statement from
> me then here it is. If you are aiming to preserve NSWGR standard gauge
> rolling stock, then don't collect any of these industrial locomotives.

Gee, I though they were all standard gauge rolling stock. Tell me which ones
arn't.

> If you were concentrating on NSW locomotives and didn't collect so much
> rolling stock then maybe it would be fair enough to collect the
> industrial locomotives.

That is not a very definitve statement. When you say "maybe" it creates
doubt as to what you are prepared to allow us to collect.

> Unless you get your collection undercover, you will have a hard time
> keeping it for future generations.

Its not ideal, but we have managed reasonably well so far.

> You may have been able to get it
> undercover faster if you didn't spend tens of thousands of dollars in
> the 1990s collecting diesel locomotives.

What makes you thing that money would have been avaiable for other purposes.
Rail fans can be fickle (you are a case in point). The money was raised for
a specific, stated purpose. If there are not sufficient members prepared to
support an appeal for a given item, it does not get purchased.

> The powerhouse museum wouldn't be what it is if it doesn't present it in
> a way the public can properly understand what their exhibits are.
> Although it may be an afterthought, it is still very important to their
> survival.

No its not. The charter of the (to give it its propper name) the Museum of
Applied Arts and Sciences is to collect items which are concidered to be of
historical significance. They are not required to display them.

> The government wouldn't bother with it if it wasn't such a
> tourist attraction. It wouldn't be a tourist attraction without their
> well presented exhibits.

Again, you are wrong. The government paid for the new display building,
thats true, but most of the items collected have never seen the (public)
light of day. There is only about 1% of their collection on display anyway.
We could achieve the same percentage with a display of a tank loco and 3
non-air hoppers.

> You have said yourself that all you have done is some weather-proofing

You love to change the ajectives and adverbs don't you. I say we have done a
lot of weatherproofing, you quote it back as "some" weatherproofing.


> Anyway, my views are
> mainly formed from the simple fact I think your collection is far too
> big for a volunteer organisation.

And I think we are doing well. I have at least been to Dorrigo.

> Even if Port Dock had your collection, I would still be saying the same
thing.

And I would say that was their decision to make.

> I would have no problem going to Dorrigo if I was in the area. However, I
> would not make a special trip.

Which still means you are commenting on what you have not seen.

> How can you claim to be established when you don't have a museum and you
> don't have an operating railway?

Given the amount of work we have put into relocating to Dorrigo and
establishing the infrastructure we need, how can you say we are not an
established group.

> All you have is a collection of stored rolling stock.

So, the land and the rest of the plant and equipment doesn't count?

> No group that collects such an unrealisticly large collection would
impress me.

You do not impress me either. See we have something in common.

> I never claimed that you said you had opened!?!?!?!?

Given that all you know about Dorrigo has come second hand, and is therefore
(as you have put it) "unsubstantiated", how do you know we have not opened?
Maybe everbody has been telling you porkies.

> All I said was you
> haven't really achieved anything other than collecting and storing a
> huge amount of rolling stock and I don't need to go to Dorrigo to find
> that out.

Thats a huge task in itself. And you havn't mentioned everything else we
(claim) to have been doing.

> 44: - Two are preserved in running condition

Name them. BTW did you know 4401 is in a million pieces at the moment.

> 48: - A number are preserved and FreightCorp still has quite a few.

And they are fully commited to their preservation too!

> 45: - NSWRTM has one and I think there are a few others.

The only 45 class that I would class as preserved are with NSWRTM and
Dorrigo. Surely the 45 class deserve 2 inpreservation.

> 42: - NSWRTM and LVR have one each.

True, but woudn't it be a shame to see a fully working 42 get scrapped.

> 421: - NRR have 3 or 4.

Thats hardly preservation.

> 47: - LVR have quite a few of these.

Mostly in regular service. Can somebody from LVR update on the status of
your 47's.

> 73: - ARHS canberra has at least one.

So we should have knocked back the donation of ours? BTW - thanks to
Manildra Mills.

> According to your web site

Its not an official site. We will be establishing an official site next
year. BTW, while you were there, did you have a look at the pictures? Some
show parts of the unsubstantiated earthworks that we claim to have been
doing. On second thought, better not look. You can argue better from a
position of ignorance.

> you have spent $69129 dollars purchasing these items.

But not all of it in cash.

> Of course, this doesn't include the other associated costs like moving and
preparing them for storage.

Nice to see you finally acknowledge we do "prepare them for storage". They
do not just get dumped on the ground.

> > Which group?
> >
>
> NSWRTM, LVR, 3801ltd to name a few.

A lot of those are in general service. 3801 has a 44 and a couple of 49s on
lease. So we are going to leave pretty much the entire responsibility for
preserving the diesels of NSW to the RTM. Have you made sure that is in
their game plan? If its not, you better write them a letter and tell them
what they must do. I am sure they will give you the same level of
credibility that I now am.

> The fact is you have a huge collection of rolling stock,

No dispute there.

> currently out in the open.

Unfortunately true, but we are working on it.

> I have never disputed this. What I am saying is that I
> think such a large collection is beyond the *realistic* capabilities of
> a volunteer organisation,

But some of us are still prepared to give it a go. I think we have done well
so far, given the impediments we have had.

> even one like Port Dock who are already established in a capital city.

First you had us compared to Puffing Billy, now Port Dock has become your
yardstick. If you like what they do, fine. That both have a lot to recommend
them. Go and join them and be happy. If you do not like what we do, thats
your choice. You are free to make it. The same way we are free to make our
choices.

Maybe after the revolution when Australia is a repressed dictatorship, you
can apply for the post of director of volunteer railway museums. You will
then be in a position where you can enforce your dogma on the evil empire in
Dorrigo. Until then its to each his own.

Trevor