Re: Travel patterns (was Re: New form of rail transportation)

["Ben" <smithb@alphalink.com.au>]

"Michael" <usenet.spam@gunzel.net> wrote in message
8FEE9427AgunzelT333@139.130.239.94">news:8FEE9427AgunzelT333@139.130.239.94...
> Ben <smithb@alphalink.com.au> wrote in article
> <3a13e098@news.alphalink.com.au>:
>
> >> (Assuming a ferry terminal to be setup on Northbank, at Flinders
> >> Street Station - which can be done at relatively minor cost).
>
> >I believe from memory that there is a mooring there already. Not the
> >Tourist Ferries but on the FSS side of Princes Bridge right?
>
> I think you are right there. Although, the North bank could do with a bit
> of redevelopment. An idea, perhaps radical, but I don't think it will be
> too costly, is to excavate up to the face of (the former) platform 11.
> Degraves Street and Elizabeth Street subway to provide direct access to
the
> ferry dock. Access from Flinders Street Concourse can be provided from the
> platform 10 ramp, and another set of stairs or ramp to the ferry dock. The
> ferry dock will be part of the Metcard paid area, hence you would require
> to use a barrier either on the concourse, at the platform 1 end of the
> Degraves Street Subway (hence no change) or an extra barrier provided at
> the Spencer Street end where the Elizabeth Street subway stops.
>
> >> * Northbank - Docklands - (few stops) - Marybyrnong - (Keilor??). [How
> >> far can a boat go up the Marybyrnong river?]
>
> >To Avondale Hieghts, Canning Reserve I think, maybe a bit further up
> >stream from the Cordite Av bridge.
>
> The Melways bears no influence on how far you can run a boat up the river,
> but it does mention a rock ford (why not a rock holden?) near enough to
> Canning Street itself, at Canning Street reserve.
>
> >> * Northbank - Williamstown - Corio - Queenscliff - Sorrento -
> >> Mornington - Black Rock - Northbank.
> >> * Northbank - Black Rock - Mornington - Sorrento - Queenscliff - Corio
> >> - Williamstown - Northbank.
>
> >How long would this take?
>
> None of the passengers would take the anti clockwise route, say if they
> were going anywhere further than Queenscliff, and vice versa for Sorrento.
> Unless of course, someone is going from Corio to Mornington, etc. Ideally,
> the trips made would be Northbank to Queenscliff, then you get a change of
> passengers for those who want to go across the bay, once across the bay,
> you would have another change in passengers for those who want to go from
> say Sorrento to Northbank. Still, as you question, it may take a while.
>
> I used to travel in the bay all the time in a run-about - I think it took
> about 40-50 minutes to get across from Elwood to Mud Islands (near
> Geelong). Can't really remember the speed the boat was capable of, i think
> around about 50kph. Hence a ferry may be able to cut a huge portion of
> travel time for those who travel from the Bellarine and Mornington
> peninsulas.
>
> >What about a ferry service from Frankston to Mornington,  the lower
> >Mornington Peninsular (Sorrento/Portsea),  Queenscliff then to
> >Geelong/Corio where it would connect with rail to Melbourne and vice
> >versa, connect with rail in Frankston.
>
> This could work too. Perhaps more emphasis could be placed on an express
> ferry from Melbourne directly to the two peninsulas. Taking into
> consideration, rail from Frankston is still 60 minutes to Melbourne.
>
> Thus, I would consider, Northbank-Frankston-Mornington-Sorrento-
> Queenscliff-Geelong-Corio-Northbank. Taking Frankston into consideration,
> with a 30-40 minute trip time from Melbourne-Frankston by water, many
> people would take this option over taking the train (slow - 60 minutes) or
> car. The emphasis would still be on those areas not well serviced by
public
> transport now, eg Mornington Peninsula and Bellarine Peninsula.
>
> >That way you would have a lower bay system that feed to Geelong and
> >Frankston dramatically cutting travel time between the two.
>
> >While in the upper bay you could have the Northbank, Docklands,
> >Footscray, Willy, Port Melbourne/Beacon Cove (Sandridge), St Kilda,
> >Black Rock service.
>
> Having taken above points into consideration, I don't think we really need
> an extensive service in the northern half of the bay. Footscray and
> Williamstown are just convenient, because they are not out of the way, but
> Port Melbourne is serviced by a reasonable tram service, as is St Kilda.
> Black Rock on the other hand is out of the way of the railway, but can be
> fixed with a decent feeder bus service to the train lines (if one doesn't
> already exist... hang on, decent bus services? we don't have them in
> Melbourne).

I was thinking more about the problem of people avoiding the cbd in getting
from east to west, instead of creating train-boats, when reffering to St
kilda and Williamstown.
>
> >> At the same time, you could possibly integrate Geelong rail into the
> >> Met fare system, hence becoming Zone 3 beyond Werribee.
>
> >> There is genuine need for public transport in many of the areas
> >> mentioned above, and is still keeping to the mostly radial model
> >> outlined by other people. (With the exception of Sorrento-Queenscliff
> >> - anyone expecting people to go via Melbourne is total lunacy).
>
> >Geelong should be part of the Met fare system. Currently a return adult
> >ticket to Geelong OP costs about $12.20. I know a concession to Geelong
> >costs $6.10 and a zone 123 daily concession costs $4.30. So that would
> >mean a few $'s off the price of travel if it is in zone 3. What about
> >Geelong busses? (The Met is starting to look like City rail here with
> >such a large area.)
>
> Geelong buses could possibly be integrated into zone 3 as well. While I'm
> not familiar with the Geelong bus network, I don't think it would be wise
> to assume that all Geelong buses should be turned into rail feeders, when
> they may well provide the public transport backbone for Geelong.
>
> Would Geelong benefit from an urban rail service (I hear Adelaide might
> have a few spare railcars soon) not unlike what they have in Newcastle and
> Wollongong?

I always though that Bendigo could use urban rail,
Eaglehawk-Bendigo-Kangaroo Flat-Golden Square. But that was me dreaming as
they have from what I can tell a decent bus network.

As for Geelong you could re-open the Queenscliff line to Drysdale. That way
you can have two lines.

Gherringhap-Moorabool-Bell Park(new station)-North Geelong-Geelong-Soth
Geelong-Thompson-Moolap-Leopold-Curleweis-Drysdale.Then reclaim from the
narrow guage
and broadify it (standard by the time it happens) to Queenscliff.(No offence
intended to BPR)

Little River?-Lara-Corio-North Shore-North Geelong-Sth Geelong-
Breakwater-Grovedale-Warun Ponds.

But I doubt that Geelong is ready for it. Those 3000 class railcars would go
really well though.Maybe WCR could run the Geelong urban system.


Ben Smith