Re: Travel patterns (was Re: New form of rail transportation)

[usenet.spam@gunzel.net (Michael)]

Ben <smithb@alphalink.com.au> wrote in article
<3a13e098@news.alphalink.com.au>: 

>> (Assuming a ferry terminal to be setup on Northbank, at Flinders
>> Street Station - which can be done at relatively minor cost).

>I believe from memory that there is a mooring there already. Not the
>Tourist Ferries but on the FSS side of Princes Bridge right?

I think you are right there. Although, the North bank could do with a bit 
of redevelopment. An idea, perhaps radical, but I don't think it will be 
too costly, is to excavate up to the face of (the former) platform 11. 
Degraves Street and Elizabeth Street subway to provide direct access to the  
ferry dock. Access from Flinders Street Concourse can be provided from the 
platform 10 ramp, and another set of stairs or ramp to the ferry dock. The 
ferry dock will be part of the Metcard paid area, hence you would require 
to use a barrier either on the concourse, at the platform 1 end of the 
Degraves Street Subway (hence no change) or an extra barrier provided at 
the Spencer Street end where the Elizabeth Street subway stops. 

>> * Northbank - Docklands - (few stops) - Marybyrnong - (Keilor??). [How
>> far can a boat go up the Marybyrnong river?]

>To Avondale Hieghts, Canning Reserve I think, maybe a bit further up
>stream from the Cordite Av bridge.

The Melways bears no influence on how far you can run a boat up the river, 
but it does mention a rock ford (why not a rock holden?) near enough to 
Canning Street itself, at Canning Street reserve.

>> * Northbank - Williamstown - Corio - Queenscliff - Sorrento -
>> Mornington - Black Rock - Northbank.
>> * Northbank - Black Rock - Mornington - Sorrento - Queenscliff - Corio
>> - Williamstown - Northbank.

>How long would this take?

None of the passengers would take the anti clockwise route, say if they 
were going anywhere further than Queenscliff, and vice versa for Sorrento. 
Unless of course, someone is going from Corio to Mornington, etc. Ideally, 
the trips made would be Northbank to Queenscliff, then you get a change of 
passengers for those who want to go across the bay, once across the bay, 
you would have another change in passengers for those who want to go from 
say Sorrento to Northbank. Still, as you question, it may take a while. 

I used to travel in the bay all the time in a run-about - I think it took 
about 40-50 minutes to get across from Elwood to Mud Islands (near 
Geelong). Can't really remember the speed the boat was capable of, i think 
around about 50kph. Hence a ferry may be able to cut a huge portion of 
travel time for those who travel from the Bellarine and Mornington 
peninsulas.

>What about a ferry service from Frankston to Mornington,  the lower
>Mornington Peninsular (Sorrento/Portsea),  Queenscliff then to
>Geelong/Corio where it would connect with rail to Melbourne and vice
>versa, connect with rail in Frankston.

This could work too. Perhaps more emphasis could be placed on an express 
ferry from Melbourne directly to the two peninsulas. Taking into 
consideration, rail from Frankston is still 60 minutes to Melbourne. 

Thus, I would consider, Northbank-Frankston-Mornington-Sorrento-
Queenscliff-Geelong-Corio-Northbank. Taking Frankston into consideration, 
with a 30-40 minute trip time from Melbourne-Frankston by water, many 
people would take this option over taking the train (slow - 60 minutes) or 
car. The emphasis would still be on those areas not well serviced by public 
transport now, eg Mornington Peninsula and Bellarine Peninsula.

>That way you would have a lower bay system that feed to Geelong and
>Frankston dramatically cutting travel time between the two.

>While in the upper bay you could have the Northbank, Docklands,
>Footscray, Willy, Port Melbourne/Beacon Cove (Sandridge), St Kilda,
>Black Rock service. 

Having taken above points into consideration, I don't think we really need 
an extensive service in the northern half of the bay. Footscray and 
Williamstown are just convenient, because they are not out of the way, but 
Port Melbourne is serviced by a reasonable tram service, as is St Kilda. 
Black Rock on the other hand is out of the way of the railway, but can be 
fixed with a decent feeder bus service to the train lines (if one doesn't 
already exist... hang on, decent bus services? we don't have them in 
Melbourne). 

>> At the same time, you could possibly integrate Geelong rail into the
>> Met fare system, hence becoming Zone 3 beyond Werribee.

>> There is genuine need for public transport in many of the areas
>> mentioned above, and is still keeping to the mostly radial model
>> outlined by other people. (With the exception of Sorrento-Queenscliff
>> - anyone expecting people to go via Melbourne is total lunacy).

>Geelong should be part of the Met fare system. Currently a return adult
>ticket to Geelong OP costs about $12.20. I know a concession to Geelong
>costs $6.10 and a zone 123 daily concession costs $4.30. So that would
>mean a few $'s off the price of travel if it is in zone 3. What about
>Geelong busses? (The Met is starting to look like City rail here with
>such a large area.)

Geelong buses could possibly be integrated into zone 3 as well. While I'm 
not familiar with the Geelong bus network, I don't think it would be wise 
to assume that all Geelong buses should be turned into rail feeders, when 
they may well provide the public transport backbone for Geelong. 

Would Geelong benefit from an urban rail service (I hear Adelaide might 
have a few spare railcars soon) not unlike what they have in Newcastle and 
Wollongong?

M.

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