Re: [AUS] Radio forum on public transport

[Leif <leif.hanlen@studentmail.newcastle.edu.au>]

JohnO wrote:
> 
> Unbelievable...You've obviously not been to Melbourne lately

This is true... I've not lived in Melbourne... but your response is
typical of most of the car/ute/small vehicle driving individuals on most
of the streets in most of the cities where I have lived.

Of course, your response (beyond being a bit aggressive) is nothing
compared to the responses I'd get in the mid West American states: there
I am quite sure your first line would have been "What are you? A
communist, suggesting I should have to ride a train?"

> 
>    Drive to a Rail way station?!? Then get a train...oh yeah, i'll leave my
> car unprotected

Sadly this is a vicous cycle that people seem happy to encourage:
Don't want to get wet walking to the station, buy a car, don't want to
leave nice new car at station, drive all the way to work, pay SERIOUS
dollars to park in "secure" car parks, and drive home again.... thus
adding 1 to the total number of people who get to work via road, and
about 1000 to the number of wasted dollars in terms of total expenditure
in both your own, and the public purse to build all the infrastructure
to support your decision...

And, once everyone's forked out the cash to own a car, they don't tend
to bother with public transport any more - despite the fact that in both
peak, *and* off-peak times it's almost always faster door-to-door to
catch a train if you want to get to the middle of a city.

>    in an unsecured 'open' car park, then pay more money to ride a filthy,
> urine reeking,
>    leeking train into the CBD, where I am crammed in like a sardine... 
:o)

Let's take a look at this:
Working on the sorts of places I've been, it would cost not much more
than $1 for the rund trip, by car, to the nearest station each day. From
there, you can buy a weekly ticket, and this shouldn't be setting you
back much more than $15 a round trip... considering that the round trip
from Newcastle to Sydney isn't much more than $40... and I assume you
aren't commuting *that* sort of distance each day?

So, why are there NO "secure" parking stations near train stations?
Well, there are some, but mostly right in the city, and reason is that
peopl will not park near railway lines... they'll drive all the way in
to the city, in preference to stopping half way... mind you, that
"secure" car park has about an equal chance of getting your car pinched
as a non secure one...


As for the other problems - the urine, the lack of friendly guards.. for
the most part it's not true, and likewise, the underground mazes that
are car pakring centres aren't too nice a place for a family picnic...

 
>    to work from the Station...
> 
>    You then want me to repeat this process at the end of the day?!?.. 

Yes. In much the same way that you repeat the process of extracting your
car, and driving home...

See, you can paint both in the same light:
Wake up at least an hour earlier than necessary, so you can beat most of
the morning rush to work, stay at work with your car sitting idle all
day in some weirdo's excuse for a parking lot at $30 a day, and then,
stay at work late in the evening, simply so you dodge the five-o-clock
rush, and then wander through dark streets back to the lot (where I'm
guessing you see thousands of happy security guards ready to help you?
no?) and drive back home, for a very late meal.

Meanwhile (if you have one) your family has a *second* car, to get the
wife to shop, the kids to school, and all the time you, and the
significant other are both working your fingers to the bone to pay off
the respective mortgages.....

It works both ways. I'm not saying that you personally have to adopt my
opinion of public transport. But if you want to drive into the middle of
the city, along the same roads as thousands of other people, driving to
a destination not more than fifteen minutes walk from your own, then you
should be offering some pretty serious compensation to those who decide
to share the same transport vehicle.


I used
> to get public
>    transport to work and back and I have vowed NEVER AGAIN!... I'll drive my
> car to
>    work and pay for parking in a secured car park thank you...

That is fine by me - if you read the original post, I actually
considered this option: You want to drive, you pay extra for the
privilege. What I want to see is a true "user pays" system: I don't
think it is possible to "force" everyone onto public transport... there
will always be people who cannot or will not use it... for whatever
reason (some of them legitimate)... but the fact remains that by driving
my car into the middle of Sydney, I am forcing all the busses stuck
behind me to wait in needless traffic jams, I am filling valuable city
blocks with my parked car, and I am requiring all the councils, between
my house and my place of work, to ensure that all the road work, and all
the infrastucture runs like clockwork, so that I can get where I want to
go, whenever I want to get there...

I think that it is reasonable, for such a luxury, to expect a fairly
high toll to be paid, and that this toll would be put towards making the
far more efficient alternatives work better... such as public transport.

> 
>    Train station car parks are amoungst the number one places to steal cars,
> just ask
>    poor old Forg who lost his RS Liberty at a Rail station...

That is true: train station car parks are among the worst spots to lose
your car... second only to shopping centres (particularly with movie
theatres), and right up there with almost any other car parking area...
the problem arises wherever you find that cars are parked in abundance,
and left for long periods of time... but think:

If you had a realistic public transport system, you won't need to drive
to some huge, central railway station - you'd catch a bus. Or (and this
would be if you really lived a long way from the city), drive to a bus
stop... 

And you have to realise, that if people are driving their cars regularly
to a train station, then there will be an incentive for the relevant
authorities to introduce some security personel... hell, you might even
find some parking fees!

> 
>    Let's not mention the safety issues with public transport, no guards on
> trains, no-one
>    manning rail stations, no toilets at railway stations, needles left by
> druggies... absolutely
>    disgusting.

It's strange, but in the many years of travelling by public transport, I
have noticed that (even in the really off peak times) this isn't much of
a problem... 

And, as for no toilets... well, you won't find many of those in your car
or your secure parking lot ;o)

The problems (that you have vastly exaggerated) are really more of a
problem with the society in which you live, rather than with the public
transport system: If people are willing to pay for the service, they
will get the result.

Private car parking didn't spring up out of the goodness of someone's
heart - it is there because you (and thousands like you) will pay for
it. Mostly bourne of senseless fears about the public transport
system... 

;o) But as you say, let's not mention them.

> 
>    Public transport is unsafe, unreliable, croweded, expensive and
> increasingly
>    irrelevent to most people.

It's a nice catch-cry isn't it?
But I'm afraid that is all that this really amounts to: A series of
five-minute-grab slogans...

Unsafe?
Well, I haven't heard of a "public transport toll" yet... 
And, even with your claims, that we're all in serious danger of being
attacked at the lonely train and bus stops... there are still more
pedestrains run down by cars, and more people killed in car crashes than
any number of attacks in public transport depots.. It is so bad, that
there is a burgeoning industry on prime time commercial radio, where
radio stations will devote five minutes during news breaks to tell
commuters where the latest accidents have occured...

Unreliable?
Well... we all know how city rail trains can run about 5 to sometimes 15
mintues late... I'd like to see anyone ensure that their car arrived at
the parking lot *everyday* within 15 mintues, running during peak hour.
The problem is, people only notice the time spent waiting for a
bus/train while they're sitting at the stop... most of us take the time
spent waiting in traffic for granted.

Crowded?
Yes.. but so are the roads, in fact so are the cities... try walking
down a street at lunch time... And the trains are crowded because there
is no money to support more of them. Same for the busses... Seriously,
who's going to catch a bus into the city, when the busses get caught in
the same traffic jams that you are trying to avoid? This is why I
suggested keeping private cars out of the middle of cities.

Expensive??!?!
Seriously, you can't mean that.
It cost me, personally, $40 per week to get to and from work, for a
year... and that was without purchasing any weekly or yearly tickets,
which would save quite a lot.

Compared to a car (without even factoring in such things as purchasing
it, or depreciation, or even registration or, insurance) that is
nothing.

The problem with public transport is that it became unfashionable. There
are no big advertising agencies running to promote the new bus service
to Musswellbrook, whereas everyone will undoubtably hear of the latest
car available.

We need an infrastucture that will prmote (note, not FORCE) people to
use the public transport - radial system as I mentioned in the previous
post... I think you will find, that with such a system most, if not all
of your concerns would vanish.

Leif.