Re: Guard & Drivers Working Together.

["Al" <alpout@optusnet.com.au>]

"Karina Vor-daniken" <vorgestern@hotmail.com> wrote in message
65aa48a0.0106071609.505d381a@posting.google.com">news:65aa48a0.0106071609.505d381a@posting.google.com...
> "Tezza" <tezza2000@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:<3b1f8fa5$0$25473$7f31c96c@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>...
> > "Karina Vor-daniken" <vorgestern@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Seeing as how you've snipped the whole damn post, I'll just have to guess
> > that you're replying to me.
> >
> > | So what your saying is that the air-conditioning in the drivers cab is
> > | almost worthless if the guard operated from the front of the train.
> >
> > I was stating the obvious. You don't leave your doors or windows open at
> > home with the air-con on.
> >
> > | What's the efficiency of the air-conditioning for the guard normally.
> >
> > Ask a guard.
>
> Why ask a guard, by your own admission it's not good. But who cares.

No, I think he's merely saying that by him not being a guard, he doesn't know
what conditions they work under.  Do you know what every person does where you
work/study/play, and the conditions and pay they get for it??

> ------------------------------
> >
> > | So what your implying is stuff the guard, I'm OK up front.
> >
> > You infer incorrectly.
>
> Your responses hints otherwise.

No they don't.  They merely present his point of view. His.  Not the guards'.

> >
> >
> > | Poor old guard, longer shifts, poorer conditions, less pay I dare say.
> >
> > What are their poorer conditions? They usually make more than Drivers.
> >
> >
> > | What about the crap seat the guard has to sit.
> >
> > The Driver's seat?
>
> Using the drivers must tell your what I said is correct. Its crap.
> That answer obviously tells us the obvious does it not.

How many seats are available in a cab to sit in?  Why can't they sit whereever
they choose?  I've never seen a guard in a 620/720 sit in a driver's seat
(actually, most of them seem pretty comfy), and I can't say I've noticed on an
Endeavour.

> -------------------------------
>
> > | Again, stuff him, my arse is quiet comfortable thank you.
> >
> > Where do you get this crap from?
>
> What crap, its the blind truth.

To bring in another analogy - pilots vs flight attendants.  Pilot has to sit
up front, and guide the aircraft.  Flight attendant has to deal with the
passengers.  Different jobs, different callings, so therefore different
expectations and conditions.  I wouldn't think that that the FA's get all
upset over the pilot's sitting down all the time.  It was their choice to be
in the job.

> ------------------------------
>
> > | Is not the poor old guard the sap that has to get up and down every
> > | few minutes, while the drivers simply sits on his arse.
> >
> > No, he's the one who gets to sit and read most of the shift while the
Driver
> > hauls him around.

On Hunter line trains, when I've been on 620's with my bike, the guard stands
up for about 1min every 3-5.  The rest of the time, they are quite happy in
their cab.

> >
> > | The guard standing in the door way when it's pouring rain.
> >
> > That's part of his job, if he doesn't like it he can change.
>
> Yes thats right, you simply don't care about your fellow train crew.
> Like said before, train crewing cannot work together without bias.

No, what you're saying is that it's up to everyone to be concerned about the
different conditions other people may have to work under.  Get real.  Are you
going to compare a factory worker with a secretary next?

> ------------------------------
>
> > | Don't worry, the driver is still dry and comfortable.
> >
> > So what if we were? BTW, the Driver's cab usually gets wetter than the
> > guard's. Plus we get water dripping on us and on the dash.
>

Which can't be a good thing with electrics.  How many drivers have been
frazzled?

> How much water pours in through the open doors on rainy days. Right,
> keeping going your doing well here so far.

And people who work in fields that involve the outdoors should expect the
occasional rainy day.  What's wrong with a rain coat?

> --------------------------------
>
> > | [and getting paid more with shorter shifts I'm told]
> >
> > A guard works longer shifts cause they're greedy and didn't trade them
off.
> > With the longer shifts and more overtime they quite often earn more than
> > Drivers.
>
> Excuse me, I thought working longer hours would have that result.
> Shame the guard likely has to work 10 hours a week longer to bring
> home the same pay packet.

Huh?? How does that follow?

> ---------------------------------
>
>
> > | A drivers no doubt carries greater prestige.
> > | Many would happily tell people they are a driver. What's the guard
> > | tell people, I'm the bloke that opens & closes the doors from the
> > | caboose.  From memory, the guards seat does not even face the
> > | direction of travel.
> >
> > The same seat that Driver Trainers use. BTW, most guards use the Driver's
> > seat.
>
> Obviously you have never spent 8 hours sitting on the guards seat
> than.

If the rules about guards in drivers' cabs are as strict for drivers in
guards' cabs, then nope, I'd say he hasn't.

> ---------------------------------
>
> > | I have seen drivers wearing jeans, running shoes and comfortable shirts.
> >
> > That would be, because Drivers, unlike guards were not issued with a
> > uniform. (until May 2000).
>
> from memory, drivers had an option of the green shirts, trousers &
> jacket. Most never excercised that option because they wanted to wear
> comfortable cloths like running shoes, jeans and shirts. Would not
> want to be recongised by the public would we.
> ----------------------------------
>
> > | I have failed to see a guard turning up for duty looking like that.
> >
> > That would be because they were issued with a uniform.

Yep, can't say I've ever worked anywhere that has wanted me to buy my own
uniform.

> >
> > | Listen, from what I have observed the drivers appear to have it quiet
> > | good. [nothing has changed since my old friend worked as a guard back
> > | in the 80's]  I said in the above post that drivers and guards cannot
> > | really work together.
> >
> > Only about as well as the guard and the station assistant or the guard and
> > the station master could work together.
>
> Very true. Low moral, staff cannot work together. Is that not what I
> have been saying.

OK, so get them to work together, or get rid of the guards.  It has been done
in other cities, you know.

> --------------------------------
>
> > | You have only reinforced my opinion:
> > | Quote,  "Personally I don't like the guards up the front as they have
> > | to keep opening the doors, which negates any heating/air-conditioning
> > | which may be in use".
> >
> > Nothing anyone says is going to change it, your little rant proves that.
> >
> > | Not wonder the system is totally screwed.
>
> Is really a rant, or simply the truth.

Funny how people confuse what they want to hear with what people are telling
them.

> ---------------------------------------
>
> > The system is screwed because a Driver likes to work in the same comfort
as
> > most other workers? Or because or your observations 20 years ago? Get a
> > grip.
>
> Anyone whom reads your respones can see what your attitude is. [and
> what weak come-backs]
> Why cannot the guard experience the same comfort?
> Why, because attitudes like yours display selfish opinions. What
> happened in the 80's should not influence what happens today. The
> thing is, drivers have got what they want already.
> I really feel sorry for drivers, I hope that the water coming through
> the dash does not disturb your comfort to much. Stay cool in your
> air-condition cab, with your tail on a comfortable seat. Oh, and your
> shorter shifts & higher pay. hourly rate]  For your money, drivers
> don't even deal with the public. Your grasping at straws with your
> responses my friend.

No, I think you are, he's merely stating things from his side of the coin.

Al