Re: NRC <> Brisbane to Sydney safeworking.

["Richard Wardle" <ricdeb@netmedia.com.au>]

Eben Levy wrote in message <364FDEB9.40B7E0C9@ozemail.com.au>...
>
>
>Richard Wardle wrote:
>
>> David Proctor wrote in message
>> <72m6n5$q79$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net>...
>> >Richard Wardle wrote in message ...
>> >
>> >>I can see that you were never an engineman ( I was for over 14 years).
>> From
>> >>my experience I personally would prefer the crew to have some
electrical
>> >>means of safety, I.e. C.T.C signalling or a physical staff then a piece
of
>> >>paper issued to you hoping that everything goes according to the plan
and
>> >>that the train controller or enginemen don't make a fatal error.
>> >
>> >
>> >So how about a computerised system of train orders, so that the computer
>> >will not allow an invalid order to be issued? I can see some problems
with
>> >this (in other peoples minds, anyway):
>> >
>> >1. What if the computer stuffs up?
>>
>> >
>> >A. What if the interlocking at Broadmeadow allows an opposing movment
into
>> >the same section? We trust the system at the moment, why not expand on
it
>> to
>> >provide train orders?
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> The system is suppost to be fail safe. If the computer stuffs up then the
>> signals are set to STOP. The driver can also be notified of the error by
>> radio. A descrete channel is not required in this circumstance as all in
the
>> section can hear the broadcast and stop their trains before an accident
can
>> occur.  Safety is the NO 1 prioity for an engineman.  It is instilled in
him
>> from a trainee so the safety of his train is paramount.
>>
>> >
>> >2. What if the order is misinterpreted?
>> >
>> >A. What if a signal indication is misinterpreted? I know, how hard is it
to
>> >misinterpret a red light, but we see it on the roads every day, and to a
>> >lesser extent on the railways. It DOES happen.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> That is rare on the railways as the driver knows where the signals are
>> located and he knows how far they are away.  He can judge the speed of
his
>> train and the time it will take to stop his train.  Misinterpretation is
>> usually due to other factors like fatigue, obstruction or lack of
>> maintenance of the signal itself eg. dirty lenses.
>>
>> >
>> >3. What if their is a communications breakdown, and the order cannot be
>> >transmitted?
>> >
>> >A. Same problem applies with CTC at the moment.
>>
>> If there is a communications breakdown at the moment the CTC system can
>> still carry on if the signalling system is not effected.  If the
signalling
>> system is effected then they can bring the signals under local control so
>> the system can still operate by manning the signal boxes (like they have
>> done for the last 140 odd years).
>>
>> >
>> >There is nothing wrong with train orders - just that the method of
delivery
>> >needs to be adjusted to the 21st Century - there is no reason we cannot
>> have
>> >a train controller inputting the instructions into a computer, the
computer
>> >then checking it for errors and, if proven to be valid, transmitting the
>> >order to a printer in the loco cab (the driver then has a hard copy of
the
>> >order).
>>
>> I disagree there are a lot of safety issues to be addressed.  So it works
>> elsewhere.  What changes to their systems did they do to bring train
orders
>> in.  My understanding is that the SRA wishes to keep the current
>> infrastructure and still bring in the working.  Computers don't make
errors.
>> Programmers do.  If there is a bug in the computer program then it can
have
>> fatal concequences.
>
>What if the computer suffers a power out for a fraction of a second and
resets.
>it then boots up and issues an oerder for a train that is heading for the
train
>it issued an order to before it went down.
>
>and computers do make errors. what if it gets a fualty byte in it's memory
and
>that corrupts the data been carried?

If the computer has a piece of corrupted data it will fail; that is crash
like yours does when it has a fault.
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >David "The Doctor" Proctor
>> >daproc.spambait@umpires.com
>>
>> Richard Wardle
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Network/1104/index.html
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>--
>Bye for now,
>
>Eben
>
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~tkid/
>
>And one ring to rule ... err ... moderate them all!
>
>