Re: [Vic] Metcard - What could be done.

["Dave Proctor" <daproc@spambait.ozemail.com.au>]

"Anthony Morton" <amorton@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au> wrote in message
news:8i99k1$qm5$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU...

> Here the expression 'anal retentive' comes to mind.  I would have
naturally
> assumed that police on duty are exempt from public transport fares.

They are - but if they are in plain clothes, members of the public do not
know they are cops, so they were being told to validate. Being issued with
tickets to enable them to do this allows them to blend in.

> >One of the major difficulties in this country is that fare evasion is
seen
> >as a victimless crime. Well it isn't. Fare evasion impacts upon the whole
> >community, by way of either fares being higher than they should be, or
> >revenues being lower than what they should be.
>
> But this has nothing to do with the point under discussion.  It was
actually
> easier to combat fare evasion under the old system, when there were people
> around all the time to check tickets.

But the point that I was making is that if fare evasion was not seen as a
victimless crime, and everyone validated, then fare evaders would stand out
(they would be the ones not validating).

> >> Motorists aren't expected to plan in advance when they're going to
drive
> >> their car;
> >
> >Aren't they? I, as someone who does not regularly travel via the new toll
> >roads, decide to travel via them. How do I pay the toll? I have not
> >purchased whatever device is necssary to pay the toll. If I wish to
travel
> >via these roads, I am required to plan it in advance and go through the
> >rigamarole required to get through the toll plazas.
>
> On most toll roads there are toll collection booths that accept cash.
Even
> on Citylink you can buy an E-tag once and it records your tolls
automatically
> with no further action required on your part other than paying the bills.
> In this way it functions like a periodical ticket that you buy once in
advance
> and then don't have to worry about.  You don't have to stop the car and
wave
> the E-tag at the toll gantry to register your toll.

But you still have to go and get the E-tag, removing the spontaneity of the
trip. I cannot just go and use Citylink, I have to go and get the device
first.

> I agree the system of Citylink day passes is stupid; no doubt they've
> deliberately made it so to cajole people into buying E-tags.  If their
users
> were foremost in their concerns they'd have a toll booth for casual users.
> But in any case, you can always elect to take your car on alternative
routes.
>
> >> people are more likely to be attracted to public transport if they know
> >> they can just jump on a train or tram or bus, pay a fare and travel.
>
> >And those who travel somewhat frequently are more likely to prepay
(thereby
> >reducing the security risks os people paying on trams) if the tickets are
> >slightly cheaper if they pre-purchase.
>
> What security risks??  There are security risks when staff are removed
from
> the system to make way for ticket machines.  If tram conductors were
getting
> robbed prior to the introduction of Metcard we'd have heard about it.

Security risks in people mugging bus and tram drivers to get the money.

> >Who says there is anything wrong with buying a ticket on board? AFAICS it
is
> >purely from a security aspect that buying on board is not desirable.
> >Prebuying gets around this.
>
> This is a complete furphy.  Actually it's the small mixed businesses that
> sell the off-system Metcards that are now favoured as robbery targets.

So why are they fitting security cameras to buses then? It was mainly a
union demand.

> >> >I think a lot of the difficulties that people have with Metcard is
> >> >related to unwillingness to change.
> >>
> >> Not at all.  It's just the natural reaction people have when a
perfectly
> >> workable and friendly system is replaced with something inferior.
>
> >And the new system is perfectly workable and friendly. It is the
> >unwillingness to change that makes it inferior to some
>
> A system that encourages fare evasion on trams is not workable.

It doesn't encourage fare evasion, it is the community attitudes that allow
it. The system in Adelaide (same system, buy on trains, validate on every
boarding) works perfectly well (or at least, everyone seems to validate when
I am travelling).

>A system
> devoid of staff to assist passengers and make them feel safe, and that
> requires passengers to jump through hoops for the sake of bean counters is
> not friendly.

Only Melburnians seem to think this.

>  A system that provides a lower level of service to passengers
> by removing staff and replacing them with machines that don't accept notes
> and don't sell the tickets people want is by definition inferior to the
one
> it replaced.  Can you name one way in which Metcard has benefited
passengers?

It has not benefitted passengers because the system is not working as
designed. If everyone validated, then we would be able to argue the issue,
but because so many people are refusing to validate as required, it is
impossible to argue either way.

> >But they still have to use it. I have grumbled whilst overseas about the
> >fare systems in use in some cities. People are not willing to sit back
and
> >say it works just because they are a visitor. It either works or it
doesn't.
>
> I don't know.  Throughout northern and central Europe there's a prevailing
> culture of obeying the rules and not making trouble.  In any case many of
the
> most annoying problems with Metcard only become apparent after you've used
> the system for a while.

And you need to use it as a regular commuter does, i.e. 5 or 6 times a day,
every day, using weekly or longer tickets. I have done this, without any
dramas.

> >So far, the only people who have been willing to say it doesn't work are
> >Melburnians, and this appears to me (and to others) to be some sort of
> >revolt against a change to what they have grown used to.
>
> I'm happy to say it's a revolt; what we're arguing about is whether it's
> justified.  You remind me of the politicians who use the rhetoric of
'reform'
> to convince people that all change is necessarily for the better.  Metcard
> was introduced over the protestations of public transport users who wanted
> the conductors and station staff retained.  It's clearly an inferior
system
> and people are entitled to get angry about that.

Inferior only to Melburnians. The rest of the country manages to get by
perfectly well with tickets that require validation.

Dave