Re: [melb] Holmsglen Accident - Speculation Only

["HXP1" <hxp1@dingoblue.gunzel.net.au>]

Tony Gatt <baulko@tig.com.au> wrote in message
8ltack$l3p$1@bugstomper.ihug.com.au">news:8ltack$l3p$1@bugstomper.ihug.com.au...
> Dave Proctor <daproc@spambait.ozemail.com.au> wrote in
> message ADcg5.158943$t91.1309871@news4.giganews.com">news:ADcg5.158943$t91.1309871@news4.giganews.com...

> > Given your knowledge of Victorian signalling (despite the
> > fact that you have been living in GOC - God's Own Countyr
> > - for a while now) I think you can make a contribution to
> > this.

> <pure speculation>

> After viewing a signalling diagram, I have the following to
> contribute:

> DG526 at the end of Jordanville Platform would have
> definately been showing Stop (assuming that all signalling
> was in fact functioning correctly).

Umm, we are currrently of the *opinion* that the overlap of DG526 extends
only to a track feed at the down end of Holmsglen Platform.  This of course
means any following Up can leave Jordanville while the preceeding Up is
standing at Holmsglen.

> The ETY would have needed to trip past this signal
> requiring a recharge of the braking system.

Not DG526 IMHO.

> Also the driver would have been required to wait 3 Minutes
> as stated by a former Signalling inspector. This would have
> put the ETY 3 minutes FURTHER behind the Pass.

3 minutes or 60 seconds?

> DG484 is 1250 metres past that signal in the up direction.
> The driver again (assuming correct functioning of the
> signals) would have been required to stop (3 minutes) and
> trip, and recharge again.. another 3 minutes minimum
> added to the gap between himself and the Train in front.

The Distance between DG 484 is shown as 555m.  I beleive a Spark *should*
pull up in that distance from line speed.

> Searchlight signals are not infallible, however they are
> pretty reliable in their operation, if the signal DG484
> failed on the wrong side, it would more than likely remain
> on the wrong side, and the following hitachi would have
> added to the accident. However there is evidence that DG484
> was functioning correctly after the incident.

> In Melbourne, drivers are not required to contact control
> when an automatic signal is at stop. Which is fair, as
> control cannot see what is there, nor can they alter the
> signal aspect, hence the term "automatic"

So it should be.  Which is why one of the outcomes of the Glenbrook enquiry
seems just a tiny bit perplexing.

> As previously stated, there were no signal fitters present
> after the incident, indicating there was no fear of failure
> of the signalling apparatii.

In the interests of strict correctness, the only Signal Fitters I saw were
worrying about the track leads at DG460 as the train was dragged over them.

> SO by the time the accident occured assuming correct time
> waited at the auto's, the ETY would have been "6 mins +"
> behind the train.

> </pure speculation>

> Questions:

> - Does the ETY movement overtake the Stopping train between
> Burnley and Flinders Street?

TDN 2018 14.11 Up GWY arr FSS Plat 3 14.46, TDN 2020 14.22 Up GWY Ety Cars
aff FSS Plat 4 14.49.

No.

> - Would 6 + mins make it late before it was due to begin
> revenue service?

TDN 2020 14.22 Up GWY Ety Cars arr FSS Plat 4 14.46 forms TDN 2615 14.55 Dn
BBN.

Possibly not.

> - Did the driver of the 14:11 contact Metrol to inform them
> of the delay to his train due to malfunction or other
> reasons?

Don't know.

> - If he did, did Metrol infrom the driver of the ETY cars?

Hmmm, does it look like he did?

> - Disc Brakes were mentioned as being on the second train.
> Comeng have a form of ABS IIRC, Would this stop the train
> from going into a brake lock in full emergency? (Not that
> that would have helped in wet/misty conditions)

Put it this way, would the ABS produce better braking than if the wheels had
just locked up?  The rear set of the 2nd train had no audible flats on it,
so its wheels don't deem to have locked up.

> - Do Victorian rules still require the driver to "travel at
> a speed of which he can stop short of any obstruction until
> the next fixed signal"?

Yup.

>  - What speed would one have been travelling to "move" a 6
> car commeng train a full carriage length while it has its
> brakes on?

Seen the pictures?  To move the train a length & a bit plus telescoping a T
into an M plus deforming another T into a banana shape would require a fair
bit of energy.

--
HXP1
(now with v6.08 software)