Re: Transrapid's latest story

["David Winter" <winterd@icenet.com.au>]

David

Are you sure this Phil fellow isn't from the family of a famous comedian?

I can't believe they're still trying to get some dim-witted government to
bail the German gov't out of bankrolling another white elephant.

The world doesn't need another technology. It already has good ones for this
task anyway. When they stick it is a tube and blow it along at 600km/h, then
they'll get a hearing!

DW

David Bromage wrote in message <3748B5FC.4043E4CD@omni.com.au>...
>Forgive the excessive crossposting, but this is relevant to all
>newsgroups. Followups set.
>
>Phil Sellars from Transrapid Australia was in Canberra over the weekend
>and made another sales pitch. I've made a summary of some of his more
>questionable claims. Comments would be welcome.
>
>
>Wheel on rail technology has peaked. The ICE3 will be limited to 285km/h.
>
>Transrapid was certified in 1991.
>
>   My comment: With the concrete guideway. When was the steel guideway
>   certified?
>
>The Hamburg - Berlin line will go ahead, starting contruction in a few
>months. A 100km section in the middle of the route will be running for
>testing in 2002, with full commercial service in 2005. Transrapid stands
>by the estimates of 12-15 million passenger journeys per year. He disputes
>that there are only 4 flights per day between the two cities, and that
>Germany's two most important cities would not have such a small aircraft
>as a Dash-8 flying between them.
>
>The guideway has a life of 80 years. The vehicles have a life of 25-30
>years. TGV track has a life of 12-25 years, TGV trains have a life of 8-10
>years.
>
>   My comment: The TGV-PSE track and trains are all a bit older than that.
>   The track has been there for nearly 20 years, and many of the trains
>   have been around since 1980. The box steel girders of the TR guideway
>   might last 80 years, but what is the life of the stators?
>
>The Japanese maglev is probably 5 years away from being ready for
>commercial operation.
>
>   My comment: They want to test the interactive aerodynamic effects of
>   trains closing at 1100km/h before they go into commercial operation.
>
>The Japanese maglev is a much higher capital cost.
>
>   My comment: Any railway in Japan has a higher capital cost than
>   elsewhere. Also, the Japanese maglev has to tolerate earthquakes.
>
>There is interest in Transrapid all over the world. Some proposed lines
>include:
> Baltimore - Washington DC
> Pitsburgh - Philadelphia
> Orlando - EPCOT
> Atlanta - Chattanooga
> Sacremento - San Francisco - Los Angeles - San Diego
> Los Angeles - Las Vegas
> Rio De Janiro - Sao Paulo - Campinas
> Santiago de Chile - Valparaiso
> Johannesburg - Cape Town
> Moscow - St Petersburg
> Hamburg - Amsterdam
> Berlin - Warsaw
> Berlin - Krakow
> Berlin - Dresden - Prague
> Munich - Vienna (freight only)
> Moscow - airport
> Beijing - airport
> Shanghai - airport
> Shenzhen - Hong Kong
> Kuala Lumpur - Singapore
> Jiddah - Medina/Yanbu
> Riyadh - Dhahran - Jubayl
>
>   My comment: I'll leave this to others to debate.
>
>Transrapid is the only non-US rail technology to have been considered by
>the US for passenger transport.
>
>    My comment: ICE, X2000, Talgo, IC3, TGV (Acela), Siemens LIRR locos,
>    Adtranz SEPTA cars (built in Australia!), and many more.
>
>The Hamburg - Berlin line was always going to cost DM9 billion. Costs have
>never risen.
>
>Transrapid holds more passengers than other trains.
>
>  My comment: Due to the staggeringly small seat pitch.
>  1067mm  Qantas business class
>  1048mm  Westrail Prospector economy class
>  1000mm  Westrail Australind economy class
>   976mm  Queensland Rail economy class
>   965mm  Ansett international economy class
>   956mm  Countrylink XPT economy class
>   933mm  NSW double deck interurban (V set)
>   927mm  Transrapid first class
>   863mm  Ansett domestic economy class
>   851mm  Sydney suburban double deck (S set)
>   850mm  Transrapid economy class
>   800mm  Qantas economy class
>
>Transrapid can carry freight. They are designing a double deck version for
>passengers, the freight version of which can carry ISO shipping containers.
>
>   My comment: How big would those tunnels have to be?
>
>Transrapid has given up on the Sydney - Canberra line. It would have cost
>A$6.774b (EUR4.24b, US$4.52b), excluding trains. This works out to
>A$23.8m/km (EUR14.9m/km, US$25.4m/mile).
>
>   My comment: The total Speedrail TGV total cost is A$3.7 billion,
>   including eight TGV Reseau trains. The high speed line will cost
>   roughly A$13.6m/km.
>
>Speedrail can't be taken seriously because it was only proposing single
>track.
>
>   My comment: The Speedrail high speed line will initially be single
>   track, with earthworks for double. The second track would be added as
>   part of the extention from Canberra to Melbourne. Sellars then admitted
>   that Transrapid would have been partly single track.
>
>Transrapid is still looking at a Sydney - Wollongong line. They will be
>able to charge the same fares as CityRail for the 22 minute journey.
>
>   My comment: The distance is stated as 75km and would cost A$2.3 billion
>   just for the guideway. An adult single fare is currently $7.20, or
>   $8.60 for an off peak return. That's also an average speed of only
>   204km/h.
>
>Transrapid is also looking at a Sydney - Newcastle line for the proposed
>new airport at Kooragang Island. The fare would be A$40 one way for the
>170km journey (33 minutes)
>
>  My comment: That's $4 billion to build the guideway. If they can charge
>  CityRail fares to Wollongong, why not Newcastle? It should only be about
>  $17. Also, that's an average speed of about 309km/h. You should be able
>  to get that from 350km/h running. Transrapid was going to charge about
>  70% of the air fare for Sydney and Canberra. Kooragang Island is not
>  likely to go ahead as it would affect operations at the nearby
>  Williamtown air force base.
>
>Transrapid could run Sydney to Melbourne in 3 hours.
>
>  My comment: The VFT consortium first proposed 3 hours to Melbourne in
>  1986 with a TGV running at 350km/h.
>
>Transrapid says there is interest in lines from Melbourne to Geelong and
>Melbourne to Bendigo.
>
>  My comment: Does the Department of Infrastructure know this, and have
>  they told the bidders for V/Line Passenger?
>
>A Transrapid could run Melbourne to Geelong in 20 minutes.
>
>  My comment: I've done it in 46.5 minutes behind a steam loco (two
>  actually, R707-R761 with drivers Helsby and Evans in charge). You don't
>  need a maglev to reach Geelong in 20 minutes, a 200km/h tilt train could
>  do it.
>
>Let the debate commence.
>
>Cheers
>David