[VIC] Stopping patterns etc. Was [Re: [VIC] Epping line 10/12/99]

[Sam Eades <eadess@yahoo.com>]

Vaughan Williams wrote:

> > Perhaps Express TSN - RES - PRE - MER?
>
> Not Merri, its a little used station (mainly for people from further
> north going to the Westgarth Cinema, and for people living close to it
> to head to the city)

Merri is my home station, so I am biassed! Seriosly though, Merri is a very
busy station due to the high density of houses around it. Whenever I am
there, there are plenty of people using it.

> I'd rather Res - Pre - T'bry - N'cote. Thornbury would be a major tram
> interchange and Northcote is a major shopping precinct.

Northcote also has the 508 bus along Seperation St

> Also, if transport economic theory is accepted (and I don't necessarily
> accept it), the objective of express running is to save the time of as
> many passengers as possible (as time is money).
>
> hence, as a train is usually nearly empty starting from the end of the
> line (for the sake of this discussion lets say an equal number of
> passengers board at every station and theyre all heading for the city,
> though we both know thats a gross oversimplification), the greatest
> benefit is gained by express running closer to the city, as more
> passengers on the train have time saved. Skipping stops further out
> doesn't save as many people time because the train isn't as full.

But then you have to factor in population density, feeder bus/tram services,
car park size, number of people who own cars etc.
Take Epping: It has a large car park, several feeder buses and many people
don't own cars.
Then take Ruthven: It has a small carpark, one feeder bus, more people own
cars.

> Remember that express running also causes some passengers to lose time -
> those who use the in-between stations. This has to be balanced against
> the time saving for those already on the train.

But the object of saving people time is to attract them to the service.
People in Zone 2 will pay more for a ticket to the city than people in Zone
1. Therefore you want to attract people in Zone 2 more than people in Zone
1! Also, if you make use of intermediate crossovers (eg Bell), you can give
these people local trains.

> > Lazy Person!! Thornbury is only 250m from Normanby Av and 200m from
> the Tram
> > Hump!!
> > I agree that Bundoora trams should use St G's Rd and the tram hump.
>
> The bundoora trams should use StGRd but should *not* go all the way
> down Brunswick St. They should turn at either Holden St or Alexandra
> Pde to head into the city along Nicholson St.

No, not Holden (too narrow for trams, yes I know there used to be a tram
line down there, but traffic patterns have changed). Not Alexandra Pde, it's
too far down. Go down Blythe St to the terminous of 96, then there is no
need for 96 trams, or trams terminating in east Brunswick can provide a
supplimentary service for 86.

> If the Doncaster line comes into it, some of the expresses would stop
> at Vic Park. I think D'caster should be light rail though.

Yes, coming out from Nicholson St and travelling along the Median Strip of
Alexandra Pde to the Freeway.

> I'd also point out that the majority of delays can be reduced or
> avoided through proper staffing of the system. For example, it would be
> quicker for people in wheel chairs to be helped on by a train conductor
> rather than the driver having to get out to do it and then get back in,
> which causes a 1 - 2 minute delay. Also, with a high frequency, the odd
> missed train is less important so people would be less inclined to hold
> doors (esp. if the station staff shoot them on sight). With all
> stations staffed the need to hold a train at a station during an
> emergency could be minimised. etc etc etc

I think that you are over simplifying it again. A guard/conductor would help
reduce delays, but the wheelchair would have to be in the correct position.
Then there is the time spent getting the ramp out (30 sec+) and putting the
wheelchair over the ramp etc.
With people holding doors, it is not much help having station staff on hand.
The staff member may be on the wrong side of the station or attending other
duties or the passenger my not want to let go of the door. At Thomastown,
there are frequently people holding the doors. I will go out and ask them to
let go and they will say "I'm just waiting for my friends" when their
friends are still halfway accross the carpark, and walking. You can't
physically remove people from the doors and people are very unwilling to let
go of the  door once they have a hold of it.
What I think is needed is a way that the driver can send a small but painful
electric pulse through the doors, just enough to make them recoil! :-) That
would make them let go!!!


I have had an idea for the EPP/HBE lines. Why not reinstate the points and
signals at the old APM jnc at FFD and build a station where the loop is
(call it Grange or use the name for the old station on that site: Fullham
Grange). There is enough space for 2 stabling sidings there. FFD could
become a premium station and have a signal panel operated by the SO for the
jnc. Then a 3 car train could terminate at Grange every 10 mins and stop all
stations to FSS. HBE trains could run Express FFD - CHL - JLI and EPP trains
could run express CHL - JLI. If it was timed just right, the timetable could
be (for example):

ALP:  1654
GRA:   ..       1657                1707
FFD:  1656   1659                1709
DEN:   ..       1700                1710
WGT:  ..       1702  EX EPP  1712
CHL:  1659  1704     1711    1714
VPK:   ..       1706        ..      1716
COL:   ..       1707        ..      1717
NRM:  ..       1709        ..      1719
WRM: ..       1710        ..       1720
JLI:    1705   1712     1717    1722

It would be of minimal cost as a lot of the infrastructure and right of way
is there already. It would also open up the way for FV to run paper trins
into the mill again!

Sam Eades