Re: Head on in the Western district

["Exnarc" <gwrly@netspace.net.au>]

Maurie Daly <mauried@commslab.gov.au> wrote in message
mauried.484.3843176C@commslab.gov.au">news:mauried.484.3843176C@commslab.gov.au...
> In article <81uuud$2q81$1@otis.netspace.net.au> "Exnarc"
> <gwrly@netspace.net.au> writes:
>

<snip.>

>One really now wonders whether the pass the auto rule at stop after some
> arbitrary waiting time needs to be scrapped, indeed whether it was ever
good
> practice.
> If it is known why an auto is at stop when it should more likely be
displaying
> a proceed aspect,then there may be a case for passing it at stop, but to
make  it a general rule is really asking for trouble.

Rule 1 Section 3, complied with properly, is as safe as houses, it gets back
to the human element.

> I witnessed a situation in NSW on the main south where an auto was at stop
> because as it turned out later,a track joint had buckled and broken the
> metallic track circuiting bonds.
> A following freight obeyed the rule, waited at the auto for the prescribed
> time ,then proceeded and part of the train fell off the track.

Well not knowing the circumstances I can't comment, only to say that if it
fell off the rails (in Victorian terms) it didn't obey the rule, "After
waiting 30 Seconds and the Driver is not aware the Section is Occupied
<snip> ect. He may pass the Signal and Proceed with "EXTREME" Caution.

Sounds safe to me!!!

If we had to sit until told otherwise, we wouldn't move any trains, imagine
peak hour Melbourne with an auto signal failure at East Richmond or
Heyington, no radio communication and no explanation for the RED signal, the
system would grind to a halt.

> With radio comms now available just about everywhere ,is there any need to
pass signals at stop , autos or otherwise.

They haven't been able to perfect a radio system yet that works everywhere,
the AWARE System on NRC was hopeless, (it maybe OK now)? and the current MET
radio system used in Melbourne doesn't even work in Flinders Street properly
and has hundreds of dead spots where the radio just scans looking for a
signal, so until they come up with something reliable Rule 1 section 3 is
essential to keep trains moving.

> >>snip


> >For example, at Ballan and at Broadford the Repeating Signal told the
Driver
> >the aspect of the Distant Signal in advance. Clearly in a 2 position area
> >only, at Emu (and a number of later locations) the Repeater indicated the
> >position of the Trailable Points at the Un-attended Crossing Loop. At
other
> >locations such as the old Melbourne Yard, (pre 1970) and at Horsham,
> >Castlemaine and currently at Ballarat, the Repeating Signals gave (or
gives)
> >in addition to the standard Y/Y, G/Y, a Reduce to Medium Speed indication
> >(Y/G) to indicate the Aspect of the next stick.
>
> >They are very versitile signals.
>

<snip>


> The problem with the use of repeating signals as described above is that
it
> makes any chance of going down the road of trying harmonise the various
>states  differant signalling systems just about impossible, especially
where >within one state signals displaying particular aspects mean differant
things >based on  their geographic location.

The object of any signal is to transmit information to the Driver, what is
stated above is something that is already part of the operating practice. It
will be many many years before there is any National standard in place for
signalling, and whose to say that the Victorian, or SA system doesn't become
that standard??

> Ideally , and this really is a goal that we should head for , passing a
home
> displaying G/R or whatever equivalent we take as clear normal speed should
> also mean that the integrity of the road is as far as can be determined
clear
> to the next signal, which would include the state of points / grade
crossings
> / anything else that can impact of the safe passage of the trains.

You lack one ingredient here, finance!!!

Sure I agree the departure signal into a section should indicate the
condition of that section, however thats a costly business that would
require massive input of money, its one thing to say that Clear Normal Speed
(G/R for example), should display the condition of track at a CTC or ABS
section, but what about when departing into a TO, TS&T or ES section, what
do we have??? A yellow light or a Red light??? There is no way of ensuring
the integraty of the track section to the next signal there, which maybe 50
or even 500 km away, what do we do, 25 km/h or Extreme Caution???

> Lets face it , life for drivers is going to get harder and harder, with
more
> DOO and longer shifts,so lets at least reduce the work burden where basic
> technology allows .

Yes I agree, we must lessen the burden on Drivers where ever possibly and
CTC or ABS are the prefered options I guess, but the removal of non track
circuited railways is still along way off, so we have to adapt to the
situation with what we've got until then.

Bob.