Re: Derailment at Concord West-Personal Opinion

[krel4203@netconnect.com.au (Krel )]

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 02:24:38 +1000, Tony Gatt
<kevchris@cybertune.com.au> wrote:

>>  I also agree with the comments
>> about design of points on mainlines. However, maybe something else which
>> could be done is that which occurred in Victoria during the introduction of
>> SPOT. Lit turnout indications were added to signals just before the points
>> in question. Whilst the distance in Victoria would be too little for the
>> situation in question (they are placed on the signal controlling the
>> turnout), maybe a 'distant' turnout indication would be of some use.
>
>the only difference in Melbourne is that a Medium Speed indication implies a
>speed of which the points can sufficiently handle (I believe it is 25 km/h). If
>a set of points is capable of a higher speed on the turnout, then any signal
>indicating Medium speed before them, has an Illuminated speed indicator
>informing the Driver of a "higher" speed for the points.
>
Medium Speed R/Y or R/G has a speed limit of 40 km/h unless
accompanied by an illuminated "65" which indicates 65 km/h. These
signals are usually preceded by either another Medium indication OR a
" Reduce to Medium" aspect Y/G which means pass the next signal after
this at Medium Speed. Of course you can get a reduce to 65 for 65 km/h
turnouts Y/G with  illuminated 65.

>If a train is to take a siding movement of any form then a "low speed" signal is
>provided. (R/R/Y). Such a signal CANNOT be illuminated until a time delay has
>elapsed that would assume the train has been sufficiently 'slowed' to take the
>points.
>
Low Speed is 15 km/h.

>IMHO, providing signals with "direction indicators", just lulls the drivers into
>a false sense of security. How easy could it be to blame an "ill nformed
>inanimate object" for lack of concentration? How much information should a
>signal contain? If you provide a signal with too much information, then you have
>to change its name to a "train order".
>
So treating driver like mushrooms is better than telling them what
route is set for their train ??????

An example - Approaching Flinders Street from Spencer Street on the
new viaduct  I can get G/R, Y/G then R/Y indications. Looking ahead
there is a mass of trackwork and all following signals are R/R.
Driving a big loco (G, BL, etc) I can only use track 9A. How do I know
which way the points are set. I don't. If route indicators were used
and I was being misrouted I may have some chance of stopping before
the signal.

Second example - On the north east standard gauge the indication
approaching a loop for a cross is Y/R on the auto followed by R/R/Y
(low speed) on the Home Arrival. Victorian low speed signal do not
give any indication of occupancy; they only indicate points set and
locked. I arrive at a loop in the dark with 3500 tonnes, 1300metres,
the low speed is off and a train is standing facing me on the main
line (no.1 track). How do I know that I'm not about to kiss the front
of the opposing train??? I don't. I just hope that the Train
Controller like his job as much as I like mine!!!

I will never understand why it seems to be a crime to tell a driver
wher his train is headed.

Cheers

Krel