Re: Melbourne to Darwin Line revisited.

Bill Miller (backtran@bigpond.com)
9 Aug 97 15:53:05 GMT

Terry Collins <terryc@zip.com.au> wrote in article
<33EC6A16.E6200A83@zip.com.au>...
: Terry Burton wrote:
: >
: > I read recently that the motive power on this proposed
: > high speed line will be using "Gas Turbines".
: >
: > Can any reader of this group confirm that this is what
: > the promoters of this scheme intend to use.?
: >
: They might intend it, but it won't work. One of the local colleries tried
: to get into the power generation business with electricity from methane
: through a gas turbine. Well, apart from giving a lot of blokes work
fixing
: bits and peices, as well as collecting bits from all over the paddock,
the
: whole lot has been replaced by a paddock full of v8 generators running of
: the methane.

I do not think it would be intended to be methane from coal mines but
cleaned up natural gas. There are many thousands of gas turbines
successfully running in stationary service on NG (and probably many on
treated methane). I believe (though please correct me) that the GT you
refer to with problems was one at Avon colliery which from what I
understand had severe reliability problems due to (1) they were not built
by a reputable turbine packager (2) GT's really need specialist training to
look after, something that may not have been provided if it was a sideline
(3) the methane was unlikely to have been treated and from a coal mine is
subject to large variations in quality and quantity (GT's do not cope well
with this, reciprocating gas engines can). (4) As GT's either reduce power
or run off high ambient temperatures their efficiency drops in a BIG way to
way below that of a diesel (or a coal fired power station for that matter).
A problem that Union Pacific found in the USA in the fifties with their
large fleet of turbines.

Gas engines (adapted diesels engines) in the above service would be a much
simpler and better selection as now installed. The chief engineer of my
company visited the site and essentially confirmed the above problems with
the GT.

The first three of the above would rule out the use of Gas turbines on a
railway as fuel quality is easily fixed, training can be done and
presumably only designs that can show proven service would be used. Item 4
would need to be overcome whether by using some undiscovered advance in
technology to cope with high ambient temps and then running them at full
power all the time!
:
: Yep, it makes good sense to run various gas and liquid supply lines along
: the route, but developing a gas turbine engine has no business in running
a
: railway.
:
As above there are plenty of Gas Turbines around that could readily be
adapted to run on a rail application of around the right power (2000 -
4000kW). They are already developed and proven in service, they can be
virtually be bought out of a catalogue. It is rally only the large drop in
efficiency that occurs at low load (stopped at sidings, downgrade etc.)
that makes it uneconomic at this time. GT development is still going on and
technology that solves this may not be too far away.