Re: Airport rail link

["Alex Pout" <alpout@optusnet.com.au>]

Anthony Morton <amorton@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au> wrote in message
8unus5$f88$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU">news:8unus5$f88$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU...
> Alex Pout <alpout@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >OK, so wouldn't a link railway with regularly spaced stations (not to
> >mention connections with all the main radial lines) be accomplishing the
> >same goal, ie lots of short journeys?  Wouldn't that lead to a large
> >utilization of the equipment, ie 80% or greater?  I could just jump on a
> >train and go from Glen Waverley to Bayswater, if that was where I needed
to
> >go.  That would get me off the road, and stop me blocking space on two
> >radial trains, the inbound and the outbound, while avoiding the
unreliable
> >bus services (which would probably become a lot more reliable with the
> >reduction in traffic.... another chicken and egg situation...)
>
> It comes down to a question of cost.  Part of the rationale for public
> transport is that it's more economical than building and maintaining
eight-
> lane roads everywhere.  If I was prepared to burn money on railways the
way
> we currently seem to do on roads, I'd certainly be pushing for
cross-suburban
> links: Glen Waverley to Boronia, rail up Springvale Rd,
Frankston-Dandenong-
> Knox-Ringwood and so on.  The point is that with travel patterns as they
are
> at present they're just not economically justified, and there's no reason
to
> deliberately encourage more cross-suburban travel.
>
> I'd sooner provide high-quality fast frequent bus services on these cross-
> suburban routes and save the real money for schools, hospitals, local
roads,
> and radial rail links that fill important gaps, such as the East Doncaster
> line, Huntingdale to Rowville, and the Whittlesea corridor.
>
> >Also, with the exception of St Kilda Rd, Queens Parade/Kings Way, Royal
> >Parade, and Flemington Rd, all the major roads in Melbourne are on a grid
> >that does not aim for the city (try taking Burwood Hwy, for example,
> >straight from FTG to the city).
>
> Actually, if you stay on Burwood Hwy you wind up on Toorak Rd which takes
you
> into the city via Kingsway or St Kilda Rd.  (Though if you're sane you'd
go
> as far as Malvern then jump on CityLink.)  But your point's basically
correct;
> a better example would be Wellington Rd from Rowville.
>
> This, as I've explained, is part of the reason the circumferential roads
clog
> up even though most travel is radial.  You have to cut across the grid at
> some point.
>
> > So there's a case here where the radial
> >train network is good enough because everyone wants to get into the city
(or
> >can have journeys satisfied by a network with this layout), but the road
> >network is designed to keep you away from and around the city.  Could
this
> >have something to do with the heavy traffic experienced on a regular
basis?
>
> It's all to do with economies of scale.  Generally, the more people there
are
> using a public transport service the better the level of service (because
you
> can afford to provide more capacity), while the more people there are
using a
> road the worse the level of service (because of congestion).  So the best
kind
> of public transport service is one that runs direct to where the majority
of
> people want to go and is used by many people; the best kind of road is one
> that runs where you, and nobody else, wants to go and is used by you
alone.
>
> Of course there comes a point where public transport shows diminishing
returns
> to scale because of congestion, just like roads.  But we're nowhere near
that
> point in Melbourne and have so much rail capacity for a city of our size
that
> we aren't likely to approach it for a long long time.  If we ever do,
that's
> the time to start building lots of new lines.
>
> >> >I know that there isn't much across the north east, out towards
Bundoora,
> >but
> >> >that area is still expanding, so wouldn't it make sense to provide the
> >> >access for it now, while there's time and space?
> >>
> >> That's what the rail extension to South Morang is for.
> >
> >So extend to Craigieburn as well.
>
> Indeed.  I hope that happens ASAP.
>
> >Also, when I looked into staying in
> >Melbourne, I wanted to live in the northwest area (ie Greenvale), but go
to
> >uni at RMIT Bundoora.  How would a radial train/tram network help here?
>
> It wouldn't.  But I'd give you a decent bus service along Cooper St.
Having
> to go by bus instead of by tram or train is a factor you'd have to take
into
> account when deciding to live in Greenvale instead of somewhere like South
> Morang.  But the experience from other parts of the world is people will
> happily use buses if they're fast, frequent and not fifty years old.
>
> >The same could be said for Brisbane,
> >although it suffers from a similar problem to Melbourne, in having the
> >radial train network, but at least the trains there are a bit nicer than
> >either Cityrail or Melbourne (or so my Melburnian girlfriend commented to
> >me, when we were up north in September).
>
> Actually I believe Brisbane now has a higher share of trips by public
> transport than Melbourne does (8% versus 7% or some such).  Seems crazy
when
> you compare the infrastructure available in both cities.

Now, thinking about Brisbane's busses, I can see how that would happen, and
I might have to change my opinion on busses thinking about them.  When Expo
88 was on, I used to wander around by myself at night and catch the bus
(CityXpress to Moggill, or Fig Tree Pocket, and change at Kenmore) home.
Very convenient, we lived about 25km out from the city, but every hour,
there was an express service into the city that took 30-odd minutes.  This
was as well as the other routine busses which served our area.  On the other
side of the river there were the trains, I had many a train ride on them
living there then.

So, Brisbane has 2 things that go in its favour for higher public transport
use.  One, fast services that were clean, reliable, and regular (both bus
and train).  An all stations train from Ipswich to Brisbane would take
around an hour, not bad for stopping every 2km or so.  Secondly, two levels
of government at least realising what people want out of PT (council busses,
state trains).  Which infrastructure are you comparing between the Brisbane
and Melbourne?? Last time I looked, Brisbane/Queensland was being proactive
about building better PT (Gold Coast line, Tilt Train etc) while Victoria is
just selling it off.

Al